# 4 Youbahadi Koné | the palaver tree
In this series of interviews I talk to P4C-practitioners around the world about how they started their practise of philosophizing with children. Member of the SOPHIA network, Youbahadi Koné, developed Arbre à Palabre. He opened up the Malian traditional talking stick method to children. Sitting under a tree in the beautiful country side of Ségou (Mali) children getting used to talking in a way where every voice matters.
HOW DID YOU START DOING PHILOSOPHY FOR CHILDREN?
“I started doing philosophy with children because of the crisis in Mali. So many children here are exposed to violence, indoctrination and trauma. Schools are closed. Dialogue is disappearing. But the crisis is deeper than security alone. There is a profound lack of critical thinking, even among parents, which contributes to the erosion of children’s rights and their ability to think for themselves. We no longer know how to discuss, how to listen, how to resolve disagreements through dialogue. Children are losing their way, and the youth are left adrift. This is why I turned to the palaver tree tradition — a space where dialogue, listening and consensus are central. I combined it with the Philosophy for Children methodology to give children the tools they need to resist manipulation, to think critically, and to rebuild their future. Arbre à Palabre was born from this urgency.”
WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO OVERCOME TO GET STARTED?
“In practical terms, the obstacles are enormous. Electricity cuts and network interruptions are part of daily life. Fuel shortages and rising transport costs make even short journeys uncertain. This means that even organising a simple workshop is difficult, because basic conditions like electricity, connectivity and transport are never guaranteed.
In social and political terms, there is also resistance. Philosophy is seen as something abstract, for academics, not for children. Many parents and teachers think children should just memorise and obey. The idea that children can think for themselves, ask difficult questions, and challenge adults — that is not always welcome. There is also a deep mistrust of anything that comes from outside, so I have to constantly explain that Arbre à Palabre is rooted in our own tradition, not imported from elsewhere. It takes time to build trust.
When I see them sit in a circle, take the talking stick, and speak with a confidence they did not have before, I know this is worth fighting for.
Despite everything, there are real signs of hope. My SAPERE certification gave me a solid methodology and legitimacy. The SOPHIA bursary was a turning point — it opened doors I could not have opened alone. I am a speaker at the BIPSEFA conference in Tunis. The support I get to be able to go there, shows that people believe in this work. The institutional support from Big Thinkers in Mexico, my connection with Professor Edwige Chirouter and the UNESCO Chair, and the exchanges with researchers like John Bhurekeni — all of this creates a network that did not exist for me a year ago. And the children themselves are the biggest chance. When I see them sit in a circle, take the talking stick, and speak with a confidence they did not have before, I know this is worth fighting for.”
HOW DID PHILOSOPHY FOR CHILDREN CAME INTO YOUR LIFE?
“I first heard about Philosophy for Children during my second year at the University of Bamako. I remember I liked it so much that I got a very good grade. But at that time, I did not know what to do with it. Later, I obtained a scholarship to pursue a Master’s degree at Cheikh Diop University in Dakar. I read a lot of philosophy books, and I kept asking myself the same question: how can philosophy become practical? How can it serve people directly? One day, I found an old book — I have forgotten its title — that spoke about the practice of philosophy. I was very happy to find it, but I still did not know how to apply it. Practical philosophy was almost unknown in Mali.
After my Master’s, I returned to Mali and taught philosophy at secondary schools. But the question never left me: how can philosophy be useful — for my country, for human beings? It was no longer enough to teach abstract concepts. I wanted philosophy to touch real life.
In 2025, I started searching for methods to bring philosophy to younger children. That is how I discovered SAPERE, the UK organisation that trains P4C practitioners. I enrolled in their Level 1 course and began learning about the community of enquiry, the 4Cs of thinking, and the role of the facilitator. My trainer was Emma Leeson, who later became a mentor and wrote a recommendation letter for me.
What really struck me was how much the P4C methodology resembled something we already had in Mali: the palaver tree tradition. The circle, the talking stick, the idea that everyone’s voice matters, the search for consensus rather than victory — all of this was already present in our own culture. P4C gave me a structure and a language to reactivate this tradition. That is how Arbre à Palabre was born.”
HOW DO YOU COMBINE THE PRACTICE OF PHILOSOPHISING WITH CHILDREN WITH THE OLD TRADITION?
“They go to the very heart of what Arbre à Palabre is about. The palaver tree tradition and P4C are, at their core, very close. Both create a circle where everyone’s voice matters. Both use questions to open thinking rather than close it. Both seek understanding rather than victory. So I do not feel that I am combining two foreign things. I feel that I am giving new life to something that was already there.
The talking stick is traditionally held by the elders, yes. But it is not forbidden for children to use it. The rule is simple: whoever holds the stick speaks, and the others listen. When I introduce it to children, I am not breaking the tradition. I am extending it to those who were previously silent. The elders I have spoken with in Ségou, like Professor Doumbia, understand this. They know that traditions must breathe to survive.
When I discussed this with another practitioner in the PLATO course, she shared her own experience of using a talking stick with young children. It confirmed to me that this ancient African practice has a universal value.
Interestingly, during my PLATO training, I read a text by Maughn Rollins Gregory where he says he prefers students to ‘call on each other’ rather than raising hands and waiting for the teacher. This resonated deeply with me. The talking stick does exactly that: it allows children to call on each other naturally, without the facilitator controlling who speaks. It makes the dialogue more fluid and more respectful. When I discussed this with another practitioner in the PLATO course, she shared her own experience of using a talking stick with young children. It confirmed to me that this ancient African practice has a universal value.
Children in my region are not naturally inclined to discuss in a philosophical way — not because they lack the ability, but because they have never been invited to. At home and at school, they are mostly told to listen, to memorise, to obey. So the first work I have to do is to create a space where they feel safe enough to speak. The talking stick helps with this. It makes the rule visible: when you hold it, no one will interrupt you. Slowly, the children begin to trust the circle. But once they do, something remarkable happens. They start asking questions they have never been allowed to ask before. They start listening to each other in ways they have never practised. This is not something I teach them. It is something that emerges when the conditions are right. My work is simply to create those conditions.”
WHAT IS YOUR NEXT STEP AND WHAT DO YOU NEED TO TAKE THIS STEP?
“My next step is to run the first structured workshop with children in Ségou. It will begin with a stimulus rooted in our oral tradition: a totem, a taboo, proverb, a folktale, or a riddle — something short, imagistic, open. These are powerful tools in West African culture, opening discussions on identity, justice, respect, and community. The children will sit in a circle, the talking stick will pass from hand to hand, and they will explore the question together. But the workshop will not end with the last word. The children will materialise their thinking through artistic creation — drawing, singing, sculpting, or decorating their own talking stick. This is what I call the materialisation of thinking, deeply rooted in the African tradition where art, symbol and dialogue have always been inseparable.
To take this step, I need simple but meaningful things. A well-carved talking stick, made by a local artisan — something the children can hold with respect. Paper, colours, mats to sit on. And a stable space. I am in discussion with the BNCE, which works with vulnerable children in Ségou. Being a certified security risk manager, enables me to integrate safety and protection into my workshops in a fragile Sahelian context.
But in the longer term, my dream is to have a small centre — a place dedicated to Arbre à Palabre, where children can come regularly, where teachers can be trained and the project can be properly registered and documented.
In the meantime, the financial situation remains tight. For the workshops themselves, I am trying to move forward with very little, as I have always done. On a brighter note, Thoughtful has just accepted me as a Bronze Fellow. This recognition helps me open doors locally and strengthens my grant applications.
… the workshop will not end with the last word. The children will materialise their thinking through artistic creation — drawing, singing, sculpting, or decorating their own talking stick.
DO YOU HAVE COLLEAGUES IN MALI WHO SHARE YOUR INTEREST IN P4C?
“Yes, I have a colleague and friend, a fellow graduate, who has been working with me since the beginning of the project. He is based in Bamako, while I am in Ségou – but we exchange regularly and together we reflect on how to adapt P4C to the Malian context.
I am also in contact with the Institut Français du Mali, which has expressed strong interest in the project. The director of the institute has assigned the head of the media library to explore collaboration with me. We are currently discussing several possibilities: workshops for young audiences, a public event for World Philosophy Day, and even teacher training modules. This is a very encouraging development that could help anchor the project locally.
After a presentation I gave recently at a school in Bamako, I was invited to come back and run a session with the children. I will be testing a simple P4C session with them, which will be a first step toward building a local community of practice.”
Current collaborations
Youbahadi Koné is working with researcher John Bhurekeni (Rhodes University, South Africa). He is in touch with the Collectif d’phi (Université Laval, Québec) for potential research. Together with Ellen Duthie, founder of Wonder Ponder, Youbahadi is exploring a French translation of her resources.
#1 in deze serie, met Judith Wagensveld lees je hier